Welcome again to Terms of Service. I’m NCS tech reporter Clare Duffy, and I’m right here with my colleague, NCS anchor, correspondent, and fellow podcast host Omar Jimenez. Thanks for being right here.
What’s up? Thanks for having me.
We are celebrating a particular milestone right here for Terms of Service, one 12 months of demystifying know-how, speaking about how individuals can have interaction with new instruments with out getting performed by them. And Omar goes to interview me about one 12 months the present, what we have discovered. Omar, thanks for doing this.
Yeah, I’m excited to be right here.
Well, thanks. And earlier than we get into Terms of Service, I need to discuss somewhat bit concerning the podcast that you just simply launched lately, Tortured Justice.
Oh yeah, fellow podcaster. Yeah.
It is an unimaginable present. Tell the individuals somewhat about Tortured Justice.
‘Yeah, so Tortured Justice is underneath the NCS Presents banner that we now have right here, which actually focuses loads on narrative storytelling. And so Tortured Justice is a 3-episode mini-arc that takes individuals again to 70s, 80s, and 90s Chicago, and particularly to this police unit that was systematically torturing individuals into, loads of instances, into false confessions. And the podcast peels again all of the weather that had been taking place on the time, what it took to carry down this unit, the lives that had been type of torn aside alongside the way in which. We spoke to 1 in explicit who in 2025, many years later, continues to be making an attempt to get justice from the town of Chicago. So it is half true crime, half documentary historical past, but additionally loads of emotion, particularly from the individuals we discuss to.
Well, it is actually highly effective and vital reporting. So thanks for doing it. And I do hope everyone will go and hear. My dialog with Omar will proceed proper after this brief break.
Well, so one of the issues that I’m enthusiastic about doing right here is I needed to speak to you somewhat bit about what this previous 12 months has been like. How did this concept come about? What was the method to really make this occur? And how are you feeling trying again a 12 months on?
Yeah, it is arduous to imagine it is already been a 12 months. It’s actually thrilling. I imply, I’ve been masking tech at NCS for greater than six years. And an enormous half of what I used to be feeling as I used to be type of interested by the thought for this present was simply type of feeling overwhelmed by having, I used to be a tech reporter. I used to be really feel overwhelmed by how shortly issues had been altering, how shortly the information was shifting, particularly after we speak about this emergence of AI. There was a lot hype. There was additionally a lot concern. And I simply felt like if I’m overwhelmed by this, I can not think about how people who find themselves not plugged into this world on a regular basis really feel. I additionally had this sense that as tech reporters had been additionally what’s coming down the pike, how the tech that’s rising goes to vary our lives in the longer term. And I felt like we actually wanted a spot to attach the dots for individuals about what this know-how means for his or her on a regular basis lives proper now and how you can have interaction with it in a wise approach, how you can defend themselves from the downsides of it. Being a tech reporter and actually any variety of reporter, as you understand, it is easy to get into this type of cynical mindset as a result of our job is to ask robust questions and to carry the highly effective establishments and firms accountable. But what’s been actually cool about this present is seeing all of the ways in which, sure, there are challenges, sure, there are points, however persons are studying how you can use this know-how in a very optimistic approach in many circumstances. And that is been very optimistic and funky, I feel.
Man, I used to be about to get cynical with this subsequent query, as a result of I feel again to a 12 months in the past and kind of the place AI was then versus the place it’s now. And the concern of AI was, all proper, it is coming to interchange everyone’s jobs. These persons are gonna be out of date. And then now a 12 months later, we’re really seeing some of these firms on the very least toying with their staffing ranges with stories out of Amazon and jobs being lower. How would you say the tech world and setting has modified over the previous 12 months?
I do assume that we’re beginning to see the implications and the ripple results of this know-how I feel increasingly more. And I feel there was this shift from type of pleasure and hope and simply curiosity about what AI can do. And now I feel persons are variety of grappling with the truth of what that is going to imply for jobs, for our private relationships, for our children. The job query in explicit, I feel, is one thing that we actually, I hope, to deal with in the subsequent 12 months of Terms of Service. It’s one of these issues that we have been speaking loads about, nevertheless it’s arduous to do in the way in which that we do most of these episodes, centered on information you should utilize and sensible recommendation as a result of we simply do not actually know what it will imply simply but. But I do assume we’re beginning to get a greater sense. I imply, as you mentioned, Amazon, simply this week that we’re recording, introduced plans to put off 14,000 staff, in half, as a result of it is making an attempt to slim down its workforce as a result of it thinks that AI goes to do extra of the work in the longer term. I feel we’ll look again on this 12 months as a very pivotal second in phrases of the way in which that AI’s going to reshape the world.
What would you say you’ve gotten discovered, or what would you says been the largest change, I assume, from first episode to most up-to-date?
What’s actually fascinating, our first episode was about deep faux pornography and the way individuals might individuals might.
Yeah, simply getting proper into it. Yeah.
‘I imply, it was. Yeah. I imply it was as a result of in the mean time, I imply, it was in the months main as much as operating that episode, we had seen Taylor Swift, you understand, be a goal of this sort of harassment, teenage ladies be a focused of this sort of harassment. And so in that episode we talked about what dad and mom and households and younger individuals might do in the event that they had been focused by deep faux pornography. And on the time, there was type of restricted recourse for individuals. The precise laws diverse state by state. Some locations had no legal guidelines round this. And in the 12 months since we did that episode, there has now been a federal legislation handed known as the Take It Down Act that makes it a criminal offense each to publish non-consensual nude photographs actual or AI so individuals have recourse legally to go after the oldsters who’re creating this sort of content material. And then additionally it creates new necessities for the tech firms to take these photographs down after they’re alerted to them. So I feel that is been really actually optimistic as a result of we have seen that truly there have began to be extra protections for individuals in sure areas. Of course, simply as shortly as protections are created, that actors discover new methods to make use of these applied sciences, however that is cool to see. When we come again from the break, I’ll share with Omar how making this present has modified the way in which I exploit tech in my very own day by day life. Plus, what I hope to attain in the subsequent 12 months of Terms of Service. We’ll be proper again.
So are there any episodes that actually stick out to you that you just’re particularly proud of or that you just assume had essentially the most significant influence simply suggestions from some of the listeners and viewers?
‘Yeah, I imply, one of the episodes that I simply personally was so fascinated by that is continued to type of come up in completely different areas of my protection is that this episode about grief bots, about individuals utilizing AI to recreate family members who had died or replicate them. That episode was so fascinating to me as a result of we variety of obtained to see either side. We talked to a younger lady who tried to make use of AI to create a model of her father who handed when she was younger as a result of she needed to find a way have grownup conversations with her dad. And that to me was so comprehensible. You know, I feel we have all been there the place you lose somebody and also you wanna discuss to them once more. But she in the end had a very unfavourable expertise. She felt just like the AI made issues up and that affected her actual reminiscence of her father. But then we talked to a grief therapist or grief professional who talked about, you understand, the way in which that perhaps you could possibly use this for good, however you might want to nonetheless depend on individuals. And so I simply assume that is gonna proceed to be extra of a pattern going ahead and I’m to look at how that develops. The different episodes that actually I feel I’m very proud of from this 12 months are the episodes that we did about AI-generated police stories, the place we really obtained to go to a neighborhood police division, see this know-how in motion. We talked to authorized consultants concerning the pink flags that that is elevating. And it was a reminder, I feel, of, you understand, a lot of know-how in the appropriate arms can be utilized to assist individuals. But in much less accountable arms might trigger actual issues for individuals’s lives. So that I feel is one other actually fascinating house that I’m excited to look at, however I’m actually proud and glad that we had been capable of dig so deeply into that rising space.
I imply, it’s so fascinating when you concentrate on the points of society which are additionally making an attempt to determine, can I exploit this? Can I not use this? Policing, as you simply talked about, but additionally transportation, individuals interested by autos, training, you possibly can’t escape it. And I simply marvel for you, what do you assume is the prevailing story that, okay, that is what we both must give attention to or that is what persons are telling me is crucial factor?
Yeah, I feel the factor I hope that individuals come away from the present with is only a feeling like they really have extra company in phrases of how they use know-how and the way the know-how goes to develop.
Because I feel there may be this narrative from Silicon Valley, which I feel has at all times been the case however is very sturdy proper now. Like, that is how issues are going to be. It’s a form of deterministic thought of how the longer term goes to look with AI. You know, we’re all gonna be utilizing AI in our jobs. It’s going to revolutionize the economic system. We must have these large useful resource intensive information facilities. And I simply assume really individuals have much more alternative in phrases of how this all goes. And they’ll train that by selecting to interact with know-how in sure methods or not, selecting to have conversations with the individuals round them concerning the worth of their information and their privateness. And so I hope that is been a takeaway from this present that the longer term and the way in which that know-how seems isn’t essentially set in stone, and all of us have a job to play in deciding what that appears like.
You know, one of the issues that influences me every time I take heed to something about know-how or watch know-how getting used in a brand new approach, I begin to assume to myself, oh, might I be utilizing it in that approach? Like, I used chat to assist plan a journey itinerary lately, which I had by no means finished.
It really was fairly good.
‘I’ll put it this fashion. There had been bits and items of nice concepts. I needed to fill in loads of the gaps as a result of there have been just a few routes that had been gonna be unattainable to make timing-clever. But some of the nice vacation spot factors made loads of sense primarily based on what I used to be in search of.
‘But it was fascinating. I simply hadn’t actually thought of utilizing it in that approach and I solely did it as a result of I noticed some YouTube video of another person, hey, I did a ChatGPT-led trip and that is what it seemed like. But I carry that up as a result of I simply marvel for you, has doing this modified your relationship with know-how and the way you employ this kind of tech in any respect?
I feel so. I feel it has made me simply much more aware about my choices in phrases of how I exploit it. One of our early episodes was about display screen time and my private journey to attempt to spend much less time watching my telephone.
It’s a private journey for us all.
It’s an ongoing journey. But I feel with AI, actually the episode that we did about AI’s environmental influence, I give it some thought each time I am going to make use of ChatGPT. Is this price it? Is there one other approach I might do that? And I feel I proceed to type of have this dialog with myself about eager to strive it, each as a journalist and simply type of as an individual who’s inquisitive about these things, but additionally feeling like a lot of what I discover fascinating about being a human is the kind of like messy course of stuff. I imply, actually as a author, I really feel like simply getting the messy first draft on the web page is half the battle. But yeah, it is variety of a forwards and backwards I feel, I’ve occurring in my head is like. How a lot do I need to use this as a result of sure, effectivity is good and sure, I need know the way this software works and the way a lot do I wanna identical to hold doing these things myself. And loads of I feel the questions that I believed had been perhaps dumb questions, like why are they scanning our faces in the airport? I’ve been glad to know that loads of different individuals have these questions too.
Was there something that listeners or viewers reacted in a shocking approach? Like the response to it was past what you thought. Was there any factor like that that you just discovered this 12 months?
‘Yeah, I imply, I feel there’s been a number of of these. We did an episode about how you can set and handle your passwords, impressed by our producer, Haley Thomas. And I feel, as a tech reporter, it is easy for me to really feel type of like, oh, this can be a fundamental query. Of course, everyone is aware of. But that was one the place so many individuals responded and had been like, Oh, thanks a lot. I actually wanted to know this. I wanted this reminder. And of course, like everyone will get so busy, it is simpler simply to set one password for all the things. So I used to be glad that we did that episode and I feel that impressed a quantity of different cybersecurity-centered episodes that individuals wanted to know. Another one which was so fascinating to me to see the response, we did an episode about child know-how.
Like child monitoring know-how?
Baby monitoring, the cribs that may rock your child to sleep for you. And it was all about like, how a lot of that do you really want? But yeah, it was so fascinating as a result of I feel it is only one of these type of polarizing issues. And a reminder that like everyone does get to select about how they have interaction with know-how. Some persons are going to say, I do not need any of this. Some people who find themselves going say this makes my life a lot simpler. I’m into it. The professional that we had on that episode type of fell in the center, like I feel that some of this goes overboard and perhaps is gonna stress you out extra if you understand what your child’s heartbeat is at each given second of the day. But it was fascinating, the response, some individuals I feel felt like, perhaps attacked is the improper phrase, however they had been like, oh, however wait, I like my know-how. And that is fantastic, that is nice. I feel my hope with the present is simply to make individuals a bit extra aware concerning the selections that they are making, whether or not they notice it or not after they’re partaking with the instruments.
Yeah, to your subsequent 12 months, what’s your purpose? Because there may be such a variety of individuals on the market, from grandparents right down to frequent vacationers like myself, to tech reporters like your self, to lecturers, who’re making an attempt to determine how you can navigate this panorama. Just what are you interested by as we head into this subsequent 12 months?
‘Yeah, I feel we will variety of proceed to see the way in which that AI is altering all of our lives and having to determine how you can navigate that and the alternatives and the challenges that is going to create. I feel to your level, I imply, I do not envy dad and mom proper now. It is such a tough job, and I can not think about making an attempt to determine how you can hold your children secure on-line, how you can make it possible for they develop up as properly-adjusted, you understand. Smart, capable of devour info in a accountable approach, adults, and I feel AI is simply going to make that tougher as we have a look at this query of how do children develop relationships with AI chatbots and the way will we as adults develop relationships with AI chatbots. So I feel that is going to proceed to be a very fascinating story. But I’m additionally, I imply, I’m hoping that we will do some extra enjoyable tales about optimistic functions of tech, too.
‘One of the issues I used to be pondering, like, I actually, in my non-work life, I’m like an actual foodie, which is like I really feel like a lame passion, variety of.
That’s not a lame passion, it is a helpful passion.
I actually like to prepare dinner. I like to love examine new eating places and cooks in New York. And I actually need to do an episode on meals tech, however I don’t know what it’s. I’m like, the place is there fascinating meals tech innovation taking place? So if anyone’s listening and has a meals tech pitch for me, let me know.
That’s superior. Is there something that you just assume individuals aren’t fairly greedy about the place we’re in the tech house, about how shortly AI has caught on? Just carry me into that world somewhat bit.
‘Yeah, I feel one of the large tales proper now, and we have talked about this somewhat bit on the present in phrases of the environmental influence, however I feel one of greatest tech tales proper is the trillions of {dollars} that the large tech firms are investing in information facilities that are supposed to energy AI. It’s an enormous funding, and it is not but clear precisely what the enterprise mannequin for generative AI is, and that of course is fueling these issues about an AI bubble. But I feel simply from a form of bodily, logistical perspective, these are large warehouses full of computer systems, tremendous useful resource-intensive. Nobody is aware of if we even have the power that is gonna be wanted to energy these items. And I simply assume that we’re gonna look again on this and really feel like this was an enormous story, this can be a big story, as a result of it is gonna have implications for all of our lives. Both will we now have entry to this know-how that the tech firms promise goes to be transformative? And hopefully they’re proper. But additionally, what’s it going to imply for the Earth? And will we need to stay subsequent door to an enormous complicated of computer systems? I’m actually fascinated by that and the way that is going to play out.
Well, and there are some fears, too, that it’s going to drive up power prices for lots of individuals.
‘And I feel we have been variety of going forwards and backwards on the group about how a lot AI to do as a result of AI feels so all-consuming, however of course there are different issues occurring in the tech world. So that is an ongoing dialog for us right here. And I’d love suggestions, too, from listeners about what you need to hear on this present.
And simply from a, from a format perspective, as a result of once more, individuals do see your title throughout bylines for NCS and also you’re on TV speaking about loads of these tales. What is that this format opened up to your reporting, to your capability to specific what’s vital about these tales? Just carry our listeners and viewers into that.
‘Totally. I imply, simply on a really type of egocentric private stage, one of the very best issues about this job about being a reporter is simply having license to love discover actually fascinating individuals and ask them questions. And so this has been such a enjoyable place to try this and simply to variety of have interaction in my very own curiosity. And I feel too, it has been actually heartening that individuals need to dig right into a single matter for 15 or 20 minutes. You know, loads of what we do is making an attempt to put in writing a very brief story for the web site as a result of individuals not learn very a lot. Or making an attempt to do a two-minute TV hit. And I feel all of that’s good. There’s a spot for all of these codecs. But I feel attending to get into the, why does this matter? How is that this altering particular person individuals’s lives? And then what can we do about it? And having somewhat bit more room to try this in this format has been actually cool.
Yeah. I nearly thanked you for being on the present, however that is really your present.
Thank you for being on the present.
No, thanks for having me on the present.
Yeah, thanks a lot. And I’ve to present a shout out to the entire Terms of Service group. I imply, we at the moment are placing the credit in the episode descriptions, the written descriptions, and all of these names. I feel earlier than I obtained into audio, I used to be like, absolutely all of these names that they rattle off on the finish of the episode. They’re not all actually doing stuff. But no, they’re, in reality, all actually, doing stuff, Rebecca Seidel, our wonderful producer.
And Matt Martinez, our senior producer, and so many different individuals have finished a lot arduous work on this present, and I’m so grateful.
Well, thanks for having me. Excited to see what’s subsequent.
‘That’s it for this week’s episode of Terms of Service. If you have been with us because the starting, thanks a lot for sticking round for an entire 12 months. We have already got some nice episodes in the works for 12 months two, however we would actually love to listen to from you about what you’d wish to see us cowl. If you’ve gotten a query concerning the know-how in your life, please ship us a voice word or e-mail to News Central [email protected]. I’m Clare Duffy. Thanks for listening.