When David Axelrod, a Democratic strategist, and Scott Jennings, a Republican marketing consultant, sat down for a frank dialog at Arizona State University, each of them repeatedly burdened that they’re one of the best of mates.
Kicking off ASU’s Dialogues for Democracy occasion on March 17, they had been joined by former Sen. Jeff Flake, who was additionally a U.S. ambassador to Turkey and now serves because the founding director of Arizona State University’s Institute of Politics.
Axelrod and Jennings blazed by means of a few of the greatest hot-button issues proper now, just like the Iran warfare and the SAVE Act, with Axelrod questioning the sitting administration’s priorities whereas Jennings defended the Trump White House.
That’s simply one other Tuesday for this pair of political pundits from reverse ends of the political spectrum.
But in a day and age when politics feels private, Jennings and Axelrod have managed to forge a friendship regardless of their political variations.
Axelrod requested Jennings, “How is it that we have gotten to the point where being friends with someone who has a different point of view than you is considered somehow inappropriate — or worse?”
Jennings, in response, talked about what drew him to Axelrod at NCS.
“Most people don’t listen to anything other than themselves, but Ax tends to open his heart and his ears before he opens his mouth,” stated Jennings.
“Even though we’ve had some sharp disagreements, I never doubt his sincerity or the way he approaches the job. He’s not there to hurt anybody; he’s there to help the conversation.”
Axelrod deflected the stream of compliments and, in response, acknowledged Jennings as “one of the smartest guys I’ve ever sat down with on a television set.”
Axelrod and Jennings couldn’t be extra completely different politically. The former labored as an adviser to former President Barack Obama, and the latter assisted former President George W. Bush.
But they spoke to one another with nice ease.
“We need to be able to have these discussions,” Axelrod stated towards the top. “We’re so separated by our media and our politics that we often don’t get to know each other, and it’s easy to assume the worst about each other.”
“My hope is that we can find a way back to a place where we seek out our common humanity instead of wallowing in our differences. Because I think that is the fundamental challenge for our democracy.”
The information we eat
Axelrod has served as a senior political commentator for NCS for over a decade.
Jennings joined the community as an on-air political contributor in June 2017. He often seems on packages like “NewsNight with Abby Phillip,” identified for its vigorous and at occasions chaotic debates. Jennings stated he knew the present would produce “the most exciting possible content,” particularly in 2023, because the presidential campaigns went into full swing.
“I don’t know why we can’t have informative political discussions and also make them entertaining. I think most nights we do that,” he stated. “Some nights we get off the rails.”
The secret’s to get the correct set of knowledgeable company, he stated.
Clips from the present usually go viral and have expanded NCS’s model, Jennings famous. But does this sort of fast content material, the place Jennings, the “MAGA explainer,” debates 5 folks directly, have any caloric worth? Axelrod requested.
Jennings stated it does when skilled specialists can hold the company properly knowledgeable.
He lately made headlines for laughing throughout a fiery debate over a fellow panelist’s comment that the U.S. warfare in Iran is a “disaster.”
“Maybe it’s funny to you,” former Clinton aide Keith Boykin says to Jennings on the present, who shortly fires again, “It’s funny to me that you’re hoping we lose this war to Iran.”
After the occasion, Jennings advised the Deseret News that the polling on the rising mistrust in media “bothers him,” however he added that “we bring it on ourselves.”
For Jennings, the media business is liable for incomes its credibility.
“I believe in a trusted free press,” he stated. “The best way to recover from mistakes is to just own up to them and … say how you’re going to do better. That’s true for most businesses.”
Jennings added, “But that hasn’t always happened.”
As for information shoppers, Jennings stated his recommendation to folks is to range their media food plan to keep away from getting caught in an echo chamber. “That happens to a lot of people,” he added.
Do the powers of a president go too far?
Axelrod made a daring declaration on Tuesday night time, noting that his confession got here in entrance of former Sen. Jeff Flake, who was additionally a U.S. ambassador to Turkey, and different conservatives within the viewers.
“I think Donald Trump has made me more of a conservative,” the previous adviser to Obama stated.
He stated he grew up admiring the Franklin D. Roosevelt administration, crediting Roosevelt with saving the nation throughout the Great Depression and World War II by taking over important authority throughout a time of disaster.
“He was heroic to lots of Americans for having done it,” Axelrod famous. His integrity allowed him to train energy in alignment with the Constitution, however the identical can’t be stated for each president, he added.
Noting his time advising presidents, Axelrod stated he wonders whether or not the ability of presidents needs to be dialed again or if they need to have extra authority to chop by means of the gridlocks in a divided Congress.
Jennings pointed to a easy lesson he discovered a very long time in the past: “Instant coffee ruined the world.” People now need and count on outcomes immediately. Congress doesn’t produce outcomes as quick because the White House, and the present administration realizes this, stated Jennings.
“The constituents are demanding quicker action, which I think then leads presidents to want to move,” he stated.
“Sometimes these guys get their ears pinned back by the courts. Happened to Biden. Happened to Trump,” stated Jennings, “and it will continue to happen to presidents.”
Axelrod argued that this strategy can stop “substantive and sustainable” options.
Jennings defended what he sees because the Trump presidency’s success in fulfilling marketing campaign guarantees, whether or not it was in relation to tariffs or border safety. He additionally touted the feat of “the smallest federal government since 1966.”
“Every Republican I ever worked for in 26 years said they were going to shrink government. Trump is the only one who actually did,” Jennings stated.
In its first 12 months, the Trump administration deployed ways that “overwhelmed” everybody in Washington, nationwide and overseas. But Jennings made a case for this. During Trump’s first time period, he stated, Republicans felt ambushed by layers of forms, the media and the judicial system.
“This time, they made the decision, ‘We are not going to be overwhelmed. We are going to overwhelm them,’” Jennings stated, noting that it has been “largely successful.”
In his newest guide, “A Revolution of Common Sense: How Donald Trump Stormed Washington and Fought for Western Civilization,” Jennings particulars scenes from the Oval Office and Air Force One, exploring Trump’s second time period. The guide has Trump’s endorsement.
“What Trump felt the first time around is that Washington had such a negative reaction to someone like him taking the presidency that these interests colluded to destroy his first term, and this time around, they were determined not to let that happen,” Jennings stated.
“They knew they had a limited amount of time. I mean, one term left, and every day is a day that is lost and doesn’t come back, and they weren’t really going to pace themselves.”
The warfare in Iran
On Iran, Axelrod requested whether or not Trump ought to have defined “to the nation in advance” about U.S. intervention in Iran, or a minimum of laid the groundwork for his plans.
He famous that at his State of the Union tackle, Trump spoke for an hour and 47 minutes. “A lot of it was about the economy. Three minutes were on Iran, and then two days later, we basically went to war,” he stated.
“Look, I think you and I have a disagreement about this,” Jennings stated to Axelrod.
The Republican strategist argued that the rationale behind the White House’s choice has been completely defined.
“Whether you want to go back in time for the last 47 years, or whether you want to go into the short term,” he stated, noting Iran’s “missiles, drones, aggressive navy, (and) the insatiable appetite to build nuclear weapons,” in addition to its function in “exporting terrorism and destabilizing the Middle East.”
He defended Trump’s clear needs to not permit Iran to bear nuclear weapons, including, “I think he’s executed that.”
“Militarily, they believe we’re getting close to a point where you can say we’ve met our military objectives; we’ve destroyed all the targets,” Jennings stated.
“Right now, I’m not sure we know who we’re dealing with. We have not seen the current supreme leader in public,” he stated, pointing to the newest intelligence publicly revealed by U.S. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth that Supreme Leader Mojtaba Khamenei was possible wounded.
Axelrod and Jennings discover some widespread floor on the SAVE Act
Axelrod additionally touched on the SAVE Act, which is inflicting a stir in Congress, throughout the hourlong dialog. This invoice, proposed by Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, and endorsed by Trump, would require proof of citizenship to register to vote.
He confessed he didn’t have a lot in opposition to the invoice since Arizona already requires voter ID. But the narrative from Republicans in Washington suggests the SAVE Act would clear up the issue of election fraud. Axelrod requested Jennings if he thought the fraud drawback had legs.
“There’s certainly evidence that voter rolls across the country are filled with phantom voters,” Jennings stated.
Axelrod stated he raised the query as a result of they had been in Maricopa County, a focus of in depth scrutiny over the outcomes of the 2020 election. Numerous investigations and audits have discovered no proof of the alleged widespread fraud.
Earlier this month, the FBI took Maricopa County’s paperwork associated to that election as a part of an undisclosed investigation. When Axelrod requested how a lot proof is important to maneuver on from the 2020 contest, Jennings stated he believes that there’s proof of fraud, and in races with shut margins, even small cases can change the consequence.
The SAVE Act particularly goals to get rid of noncitizens from voting, though noncitizens are already prohibited from doing so below federal and state statutes. Axelrod pointed to the dearth of proof of noncitizens voting, except for a number of uncommon instances, however Jennings countered that it’s about how a lot individuals are prepared to simply accept.
“You can allow the states and the counties to run their elections, but if we do have some nationwide basic standards about ID, citizenship and voting rolls, most people would reasonably say that gives me some confidence in the system.”
Axelrod responded, “I’m asking you about the president’s insistence here in the state of Arizona, where they were traumatized by all of this, his continued insistence that American elections are fraudulent, that the 2020 election was fraudulent. Doesn’t that undermine democracy?”