US Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. testified Thursday in maybe the most combative congressional hearing of 2025.
He appeared in entrance of the Senate Finance Committee amid a rising storm engulfing his division — together with the recent firing of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director who had been confirmed lower than a month earlier, a collection of strikes that would limit vaccine access and the canceling of $500 million in research into mRNA vaccines.
It’s all led even some Republicans to lift alarms about what’s occurring at HHS. And on Thursday, a few of these Republicans and lots of Democrats had a likelihood to register their issues and try to modify Kennedy’s course.
Here are 5 takeaways from the hearing.
Republican politicians usually converse to the “audience of one” – i.e. subtly gearing their feedback towards Trump.
On Thursday, it was each Republican and Democrats using this tactic.
A collection of senators appeared to attempt to pit Kennedy in opposition to the president, suggesting Kennedy was undermining Trump and the successes of Operation Warp Speed, the Covid-19 vaccine program Trump launched late in his first time period. It was as in the event that they have been attempting to get Trump to intervene.
It began with GOP Sen. Bill Cassidy, a medical physician who was essential to Kennedy profitable affirmation early this yr however has grown alarmed at his strikes on vaccines.
The Louisiana Republican, who’s going through a main menace from the correct, started by asking Kennedy whether or not Trump deserved a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speed, and Kennedy agreed that Trump did. (Saying Trump deserves Nobel Prizes has grow to be frequent amongst these looking for to curry favor with him.)
“Absolutely, senator,” Kennedy stated, including: “It’s phenomenal.”
But then Cassidy pointed to Kennedy’s feedback critical of the vaccines that Warp Speed produced, his work to strip access to them, and his latest canceling of $500 million in contracts for improvement of mRNA vaccines, like those produced by Warp Speed.
“So, this just seems inconsistent that you would agree with me” about Trump’s Nobel Prize, Cassidy stated. “The president deserves tremendous amount of credit for this.”
After Cassidy planted that seed, a collection of Democrats returned to the purpose. Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington even allowed that it was a “monumental achievement” for Trump, which Kennedy endorsed though he typically talked across the problem.
By the top, the HHS secretary’s critics might need landed one a key blow.
Trump has repeatedly constructed up the success of Warp Speed, claiming it saved tens of millions of lives. He at one level prompt the quantity might stretch into the tens of millions.
But Kennedy declined to connect a quantity to the lives saved. He wouldn’t even agree it was 1 million.
“I don’t know if it saved a million lives,” he stated, solely permitting that it saved “quite a few.”
“Unfortunately, you are undermining one of the president’s biggest achievements,” stated Democratic Sen. Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire, “which, as the president said, saved millions of American lives.”
Trump had turned heads on Monday with a social media put up that some interpreted as vital of what’s occurring below Kennedy’s management. The president complained the CDC was “being ripped apart” by debate over the success of the Covid vaccines, although he didn’t explicitly blame Kennedy.
The message to Trump from senators, who’ve restricted instruments to rein in Kennedy, gave the impression to be: Maybe this man isn’t in your aspect.
While Cassidy was maybe the most-anticipated Republican questioner on the panel, he wasn’t the one one to lift issues about Kennedy’s vaccine strikes.
Others did so extra gently, however in ways in which prompt Kennedy ought to be cautious.
Perhaps most stunning was Sen. John Barrasso of Wyoming, the No. 2 Republican within the chamber.
“Secretary Kennedy, in your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines,” he stated. “Since then, I have grown deeply concerned.”
The four-term senator, who was additionally an orthopedic surgeon, added: “There are real concerns that safe, proven vaccines like measles, like hepatitis B and others, could be in jeopardy. And that would put Americans at risk and reverse decades of progress.”
Barrasso cited latest measles outbreaks in communities with low vaccination charges. He additionally suggestively cited how George Washington as soon as reversed himself to assist the smallpox vaccine for troopers – seemingly suggesting possibly Kennedy ought to take a web page out of that guide.
GOP Sen. Thom Tillis of North Carolina additionally repeatedly prompt that Kennedy had violated his guarantees on vaccines.
“I do also believe that some of your statements seem to contradict what you said in the prior hearing,” stated Tillis, whose determination to not run for reelection subsequent yr frees him from a few of the main fears that usually hang-out GOP lawmakers.
Neither senator pressed the secretary to reply, however they gave the impression to be laying markers.
Kennedy’s vaccine skepticism was hardly a secret when he was confirmed. But the topic didn’t appear to curiosity many Republicans moreover Cassidy again then. It clearly does now.
It’s tough to overstate how combative Kennedy was throughout this hearing. Whether that’s due to the stress he’s below or as a result of he deduced that’s what Trump likes to see, it was putting.
After Cassidy pressed him on Operation Warp Speed, Kennedy responded, “Is this a question, Senator Cassidy, or is this a speech that you don’t want me to answer?”
After the Louisiana Republican claimed that Kennedy’s strikes imply “effectively we’re denying people vaccines,” the HHS secretary shot again: “You’re wrong.”
Kennedy accused Democrats on the committee of “making stuff up.” He instructed one, “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” He accused one other of “talking gibberish.”
Perhaps probably the most vital coverage query looming over the hearing – and the way forward for Kennedy and the CDC – is the one Cassidy concluded with: how a lot Kennedy’s actions are literally going to limit entry to vaccines.
During his affirmation hearings in January, Kennedy made a very broad promise: “I will do nothing as HHS Secretary that makes it difficult or discourages people from taking vaccines.”
But HHS’s strikes have clearly jeopardized access to Covid vaccines. By narrowing their approval, the company has added obstacles for folks – if they will even get them in any respect.
Kennedy repeatedly walked a high quality line. Rather than hewing to his earlier message about not making vaccine entry tough, he prompt folks would nonetheless be capable to entry vaccines, at the very least someway.
Cassidy confirmed him a social media put up from conservative commentator Erick Erickson, who stated HHS’s strikes have prevented his spouse, who has Stage IV lung most cancers, from getting the Covid vaccine. Kennedy stated it was “wrong” that individuals have been successfully being denied the vaccine.
(Erickson stood by his put up on Thursday, writing, “my wife literally went to get the vaccine and CVS could not give it to her.”)
(*5*)
Ultimately, below intense questioning from Democratic Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, Kennedy prompt it was ok that vaccines have been nonetheless out there, at the very least in some kind.
“I’m not taking vaccines away from anybody,” Kennedy stated, including: “You can still get Covid vaccines, senator.”
But Kennedy tacitly admitted that narrowing approval made it more durable to entry. He acknowledged, for instance, that “it depends on the state” with regards to whether or not folks can simply entry the vaccine at a pharmacy. He additionally stated HHS is just not going to “recommend every product in the world.”
But Tillis clearly wasn’t impressed.
“There seem to be several reports that would seem to refute” Kennedy’s promise, Tillis stated.
One change early within the hearing will certainly be revisited.
Kennedy was requested to answer the lately ousted CDC Director Dr. Susan Monarez’s claims about him. In a Wall Street Journal op-ed Thursday, she wrote that in a assembly in late August with Kennedy, she “was told to preapprove the recommendations” of a vaccine advisory committee to which Kennedy has lately appointed some vaccine skeptics.
Kennedy not solely flatly denied it however accused Monarez of mendacity.
“I did not say that to her,” Kennedy stated repeatedly.
Often in such circumstances, witnesses will discuss across the problem and counsel that possibly there was a misunderstanding. But Kennedy didn’t try this.
Monarez’s attorneys responded Thursday by saying Monarez “stands by” her account and “would repeat it all under oath.”
It will likely be fascinating to see if one other committee – reminiscent of Cassidy’s Senate well being committee – probes additional. Not solely might Monarez be known as to testify, however so might one other prime HHS official, Jim O’Neill, who was within the assembly Monarez wrote about and has since changed her as performing director.